Aotearoa New Zealand theologian Michael Frost (not to be confused with Australian theologian Michael Frost...who is also worth a follow on your socials) has a PhD in theology, an honours degree in Science, is a lecturer and pastor, and is a well respected host of the podcast In the Shift, 'for when life and faith go off script.' Our kōrero takes many twists and turns as we talk about science and faith, Michael and his wife's 10 year journey to become parents, suffering and theology, changing beliefs, being a rainbow ally, and the church's relationship with unhealthy forms of power.  A trigger warning, we do mention in this episode traumas such as infertility and miscarriage, and negative experiences of church from the lgbtqai+ community and others who have come out of high demand religious spaces. Please take care of yourself and take a break if you need it. And please talk to someone if things come up for you.   Find Michael through his website, Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram, and listen to In the Shift wherever you get your podcasts. ___ Connect with me at downtoearthconversations.com or at Facebook: facebook.com/downtoearth.conversations  Instagram: @downtoearth.conversations Email: downtoearth.conversations@gmail.com